Name: Webinar: Decoding the Student Digital Experience Survey 2025
Uploaded: 2026-01-21T19:15:16.965Z
Duration: 45 min 12 s
Description: Webinar: Decoding the Student Digital Experience Survey 2025

Transcript for "Webinar: Decoding the Student Digital Experience Survey 2025": Potential partners out in the higher ed landscape and understand what students and staff members are navigating on a daily basis. So I'll quickly introduce Eric and kick it over to him to introduce himself. Eric Hazen is the Executive Director of Digital Experience and Marketing at Ferris State University. A Pathified customer, but more importantly, a really incredible thought leader in how to serve students and build a better experience as they navigate the campus experience. So Eric, I'll kick it over to you to tell us a little bit more about yourself. Thank you, Shana. I'm I'm excited to get to talk about all of this today. As you mentioned, we've we're a Pathfi customer. We've been with Pathfi now for, like, almost two years, I think. I always joke about launching Pathfi on my birthday being, like, the best gift I ever got two years ago. But Ferris State University, we're we're located in the Northwestern Part of the Lower Peninsula Of Michigan. We're about 10,000 students and offer degrees all the way from associate degrees to doctoral degrees. So Pathfi has been a a huge change for us. Thanks, Eric. Well, as you'll see today, one of the reasons we have Eric here is because they do serve a variety of students and we wanna make sure that we're grounding his experience and bringing that forth because that's where the data comes from is a wide range of students across all sorts of different institutions. So let's dive in a little bit to what we're gonna talk about today in terms of the data and where it came from. So we completed a student experience survey, a student digital experience survey late last year. We have responses from over 1,000 students across a really diverse range of institutions, and this is so important. Community colleges to large research universities, everything in between, modalities that include in person, online, hybrid, that was really important to us as well. It really provides a super comprehensive look at the current state of the Digital Campus and as we walk through the data today, it's important to know that every student is navigating a digital experience when they're coming to a higher ed institution. So I wanted to really ground us in how we got the data, really looking at this is serving all students so I hope you see yourselves, you see your institution in the data. This study was really brought forth because there's a pivotal shift going on. Students and staff members, but students really expect a consumer grade experience. And when you think about what they're experiencing out in the consumer world with Amazon and Netflix and Spotify and then transitioning to the experience of their digital world for their campus is pretty different. And you'll see that born out in the data today. So that fragmentation really comes to life in a lot of this data and how students are experiencing their digital campus. It's not just too many apps. It's actually creating meaningful barriers to enrolling, choosing a school, succeeding at a school, and beyond. And we'll talk about that today. It's no longer a nice to have. It's an absolute requirement. We'll talk about that as well. So we want to root this also in like there's a roadmap here. There's hope on the horizon. There's a way to transform this. And Eric is the perfect person to talk about this because over the past two years he and his department and Veris State are a great example of that. So let's dive into some of the data. Awesome. I know these slides are small. There's a ton of information. We are going to link this and send it out. In the Docs tab, real quick logistical thing, in the Docs tab you can click on that and download the actual report and the survey and dive into this. We'll keep this real conversational and high level and talking about the data, but I just wanted to call that out real quick cause people are going to see the slide and go wow, lots of numbers. So let's talk about this real quickly. Digital maze and cost of friction is going to be the theme throughout. This statistic was pretty enormous and impactful when we first looked at the data. Nearly 70% of students are frustrated with the digital system, sometimes frequently or very frequently. So nearly two thirds of your students or three quarters are frustrated on the daily with tasks, with all the things they have to navigate every day. This digital friction isn't just annoying. It's actually a drain on student time, institutional resources, and it really has an impact when we talk about struggling to find a syllabus, struggling to find adddrop dates, struggling to find how to register for classes. I think that probably resonates with everybody in the room today. We really want to talk about how that creates barriers, true barriers, and that comes out in the data as well. So I wanna really shift it over to Eric and say from your perspective, how do you see this actually bearing out daily with students and some examples of what this looks like and the impact at your institution. Absolutely. The sad thing, think, Shana, is, like, this is not us. It's a huge step, but it's not surprising. And I think anybody who who works with technology or digital systems on on any campus has seen this in the past where it's just almost all of our students at some point are experiencing significant frustration with the digital ecosystem on our campuses. And what I think we see worse is that the friction and the frustration is showing up at the worst possible moments. Right? Like, it's showing up at those high stress moments, the first day of classes, exam day, registration day, financial aid or scholarship deadlines, moments when the student really needs that digital experience to be smooth and frictionless, and instead, they're they're met with this barrier, and now I need to put in a ticket or I need to call somebody or I need to ask a friend how to use this. And instead of a seamless frustration free experience, they're running into this barrier. So when a student can't find Canvas the day something's due, that is an inconvenience, sure, but it's also an academic risk. And for prospective students, let's let's talk about them. Friction erodes trust for our users. Right? If the next step for a prospective student isn't obvious, if they have to go hunting, have to jump into your search bar, heaven forbid, it sends this unintended signal that the institution isn't organized, doesn't have its act together, or worse, doesn't care about our students. And so every student story I hear about this comes back to being overwhelmed and overwhelmed with the number of systems we have to connect with and the the new user experiences we have to learn. And digital systems on our campuses, I don't think, should be creating that kind of cognitive load, but the fragmented systems that we currently use certainly do. And this just to put my marketing hat on for a second, it becomes a brand issue. Right? Like, especially if word-of-mouth reputation that regional universities like Ferris State rely on, students, parents, they talk to each other. And if they're telling each other, man, that experience I had at Ferris was so frustrating, well, now your brand isn't cool colors or a lovable mascot, it's frustration. And on the flip side, creating that, like, low friction, high support digital experience, it's really an incredible opportunity to differentiate your brand. If you become the school that supports students where they need you and they say, oh, fair state. They made everything so easy. That's a competitive advantage for sure. Yeah, absolutely. You're preaching to the choir, as you know. That's definitely the case where I have two kids in higher ed and this is the first impression, if not ability, to see a school and navigate through what it would be like to be a student there. As you were describing that too, Eric, I was thinking about the cumulative load of this frustration. And at times of stress, even during times where you're not as stressed, every single time there's a barrier or in the next slide we'll talk a little bit about the time spent searching around. It's just cumulative. And I know I experienced that. Everyone does digitally. Like, I'm just gonna give up. I'm gonna close this window. I'll do it later. Mhmm. And the cost of that will come to bear in some of the other data points as well. So super huge. So I wanna talk a little bit, and this is a good segue to the time spent accomplishing tasks. And it's interesting, you know, 60% of students spend five plus minutes searching for important information, but then more than a quarter, almost 30%, spend ten plus minutes. And I mean, when we really think about this on the day to day, as you mentioned, Eric, like searching for, oh my gosh, when is this due? When do I need to enroll in this class? When is financial aid due? Did I submit this? Like, the list goes on and on. If you're spending ten minutes per piece of information or even five, we're talking about, you know, hours potentially a day navigating all of the systems and keeping track of it. I know students who keep like a literal paper running record of what tabs they need to have open to accomplish the task or a class because that class might be different than another. So it's really impactful. I've I've also seen students say, I'm just gonna give up. I won't apply for financial aid. I'll just see how that goes. Doesn't go very well. So the institutional cost of this inefficiency is what I really would love to hear from your perspective, Eric, because you see this affect your staff. Right? So if I could shift it over to you to talk about what that looks like at Ferris. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it's for anybody who really cares about the student experience, digital or otherwise, the stat, it kinda made you go, what? I mean, especially when we're thinking about our our analytics on our website where, you know, a session is typically, like, a minute and thirty seconds or so at at most. So that, to me, signals there's just a lot of students giving up on looking for that information. Oh, Ferris doesn't have the thing I need or this institution doesn't have the thing I need. I'm out of here. And I think all the time about what really was a catalyst for us in in moving, a lot of our digital experience, where the number of students that told us that they could not they had not met with their adviser, not because they didn't like their adviser, because they didn't know who their adviser was. They didn't know how to contact them. And that is something that has changed significantly with the implementation of Pathify at our institution where a student can see their adviser right on their dashboard and click contact adviser seamlessly. So I think you mentioned staff. And before our move to Pathify, our staff you know, to some extent, this is still an issue, but significantly less time is spent answering the same questions over and over and over and over again. Where is my schedule? Who's my adviser? Is this building accessible? How do I get from here to there? Those are questions that can be answered really quickly inside of our digital experience now with Pathify. And that repetition for staff is expensive, not just in time, but also in opportunity cost. Our staff want to be doing higher value work, but they're stuck, being, like, human search engines. Right? Like, literally, like, answering these very simple questions that, students have every day. Once that information, though, becomes easy became easier to find on our campus, staff time has started to shift from being reactive problem solving to proactive student support, hearing this individual student's needs and tailoring an individual solution for that student. And this is the hidden inefficiency that comes with fragmentation. Our institutions can just keep, like, throwing people at problems that could really be solved with a better digital front door. And if we're looking at 60% of students spending more than five minutes looking for something, like, I just wonder how many of them are are really giving up and that's not coming through in the data. Yeah. I also think about the urgency that you mentioned. Like, many of these requests, I would imagine, are coming in at times of crisis. Like, times of isn't a lot of time left to solve this problem, to get registered, to do the things that need to be done on a deadline, and all of that coming into your staff at the same time when they also are navigating registration and enrollment and all of those high stakes issues. So having been on a campus before and certainly not in in a while, that urgency happens all at once during times of crisis. And I see those those points being high risk points too, like times where you might lose your first year students to melt because they can't navigate the tasks that they need to navigate. So Absolutely. thanks for being a light. That was really, really helpful. So the next set of data really hits home for me, and I'm sure for a lot of people, but missing deadlines. And I know there's some some well, let me talk about the data first. Nearly half of students have missed a critical deadline because they're unaware it was due. Critical deadline could be an assignment. It could be an adddrop date that if you are on the cusp of being dismissed from your university and you miss your adddrop date, it's a pretty critical deadline. Financial aid, if you cannot pay for school, it's a pretty critical deadline. So there are so many. I don't have to to hit that home. Having a digital experience be the reason or the barrier to finding and knowing about critical deadlines, to me, is something that we can solve for now has become pretty unacceptable. I know for my own students, I have two students in higher ed as I mentioned, it was buried in emails. It was sent from different departments differently. The tasks that they needed to complete were not evident on their so called portal. It was very different every year, even at the same institution. So this created a very real barrier for one of my students to the point where even though that student is back in school and doing well, they will never return to the institution where they experience failure after missing a critical deadline. So again, that's my experience and my students' experience, but I think it probably resonates with a lot of people. On that note, I'm curious, Eric, if you can talk a little bit about how you transformed this from, gosh, we hope they find these critical deadlines somewhere to a really meaningful teeing it up in a way that they can navigate this successfully. Yeah. And I think, as you mentioned, your your students' experience is not one that I I've certainly heard that experience many times. Right? Like, why why are you coming back to something that was so frustrating? And, clearly, email is not email alone is not working, and. our students are are obviously telling us that. And when so when nearly half of students are are missing a critical deadline because they just didn't know it existed, I don't I don't think at that point it's a student failure. Right? I I do occasionally hear, some in higher ed kinda, well, this generation of students is just different as if half of our students missing something is somehow their fault. Clearly, we're doing something that's not helping them. That's a system failure. So I think the opportunity here is proactive contextual communication. And just a random example from yesterday, we if you can't tell, it's snowy here in Michigan. We had to cancel classes yesterday at one of our campuses. We were able to deliver that message to exactly the right group at exactly the right time, And I felt like I don't have data to back this up just yet, but I felt like and it felt like from communications from students that it was the smoothest class cancellation we were ever able to pull off because of the tools that we have found in Pathify. So when you can put the right information in the front of the right student at the right moment, you reduce risk for the student, you protect them, and you also protect the institution. So an example of how we've done some of this at Ferris has really been the Canvas in integration, with Pathify. Using that integration, we can the beautiful thing about a digital ecosystem, it's all just data. Right? It's all there. And as long as you have a system that can use it, like a Canvas integration, we can pull that data into Pathify and display it in the places that students are actually looking. So a student at Ferris State, when they log in to, we call our our instance of Pathify Ferris three sixty, When they log in to Ferris three sixty, their dashboard is filled with a widget from Canvas that shows them their assignments and when they're due. This does require a little bit of collaboration with faculty, and they have to be putting the assignments in Canvas, obviously. But I I and I've been asked several times, how do you get faculty on board with this? I've met very few, if ever, a faculty member who, when I'm showing them a way they can better support their students, doesn't like it. So that collaboration can be really easy. And I think it's it's about trying to understand what communications a student needs when, when they're where they're looking for it, and communicating in a way that they can understand. Yeah. I love that. I met with a school recently that was tracking, like, what do they need when to have this not become a barrier? And I loved that question. Like, now you can you can track that, obviously, with data. So thanks for bringing this slide to life because I could talk about this one forever after having not one, but two students struggle with this myself. And I think before we go to the next slide, the other thing you brought up was really impactful. Like, well, gosh, aren't we just spoon feeding this generation of students? I think there's an empowerment piece and, as you said, the right information at the right time with the right level of detail. And that's just real world. So thank you for addressing that. I know we've talked about that. Absolutely. Awesome. Well, on that note, it's really impactful to take that last slide and segue into talking about providing an equitable experience because I want to talk a little bit about first year students. Obviously super important group of students for lots of reasons. Definitely on the radar from an institutional success perspective in terms of retaining them, looking at first and second year melt rate. The experience is key to that. So talking about this data a little bit, first year students, nineteen percent, are more likely than non first year students to report feeling really frustrated with their digital systems very frequently. Now my perspective, and I don't know about you, Eric, is some of that is normal. However, the system keeps changing and the years keep changing, meaning when you go from first to second year, the information they need is different. Certainly when they go as they're a rising senior, the information they need is different. So this frustration never totally resolves just because they're past the first year. When we talk about first generation students in addition to first year students, we're just creating barriers that we don't need to create if we don't solve the digital experience for these groups of students. Last but not least, I will add on if you have any students who are being served by Disability Services, some of the services that are being impacted right now, the digital experience is one way to support them differently in a time of change. So there's a lot to unpack here, but I really want to talk about the equity and the experience and the gap that these students feel, which can be really, really compounded if they're feeling this frustration. How has this played out for your campus at Ferris? This yeah. This one, I am not a first generation student, but but very very few members of my family attended higher ed institutions. So this this one's pretty dear to my heart. And one of the reasons that I I love being an employee at Ferris State is that we serve so many first generation students and extend an opportunity to folks. We're a Carnegie opportunity institution, which is fantastic. We have been named a, first gen forward champion, which we also love being. And I think, you know, higher ed, it it has its own language. And when I started working in higher ed ten years ago, I had to learn that language, the acronyms, the systems, the underwritten laws, things that just every college student has to to start to learn a little bit, but especially first generation students who may not have the support system to to go back home and say, like, what what does this mean? What is what is a FAFSA? How do I do this? And a strong orientation process helps, but institutions of every size are big old machines. And so when digital systems assume that insider knowledge, they unintentionally, hopefully, disadvantage first year and first gen students. So if your first experience is confusion, it creates intimidation and a feeling of just not belonging and difficulty connecting to campus. And that seamless onboarding experience, on the other hand, removes a barrier and sends a really powerful message that, student, you belong here, and we've got your back. I think a lot about a student that I got to know a little bit last year during her internship experience. And she we were she was participating in the x games, which is which is pretty cool. And she told us that her decision to attend State hinged on the fact that there was a faculty member who helped her one on one make decisions about her education, and, otherwise, she would have attended a different institution. That support really meant that she enrolled at Ferris State. And with shrinking budgets, overwhelmed staff, and students having larger barriers than ever, especially in the mental health space right now, Achieving one on one support like that is not going to be always possible for every student. But if we can start to create systems, which I think we're getting in the right direction here at Ferris, that support students just at the highest possible level, we can begin to close some of those achievement gaps and and really realize our institutional mission, which is to support every student where they are. Yeah. I love that. That's a great that's a great prompt for the next slide. This is this is really the on ramp to community and belonging is is what you're describing, and I love that. Removing those barriers for first gen and first year students and creating that on ramp. This was so powerful to me. 65% of students want their institutions to make it easier to find their groups and clubs. This seems like such a no brainer and it's so difficult. And I know Eric and I talked about this in an event previously this year or last year now. Students still rely on word-of-mouth, asking a professor, flyers, a friend telling them, you know, all of those things. They're not relying on their digital experience to show them where to go. And I know this firsthand from my own students. So essentially, they're stumbling around hoping that they find the connection and the belonging and the club and the mentorship that you described about the equity piece. So this is so huge to me. I'm really excited about this as well because in a digital space, certainly with Pathify, I'm biased, of course, you can find that community and point groups of students in the right direction direction based on their roles and their interests in a scalable way. So I wanna talk a little bit about this and see, you know, how have you used Pathify in particular, Eric, to create this space and point students in the right directions? Yeah. It's it's so funny. It's it's like a little data point like this. Like, students want to be able to find clubs easier. Like, it sounds so simple, but I think when you start to really unravel, what what does that mean? It's this kind of hunger to belong. And I think, especially for a college age student or any student, belonging, it it it is not an abstract concept. Right? It shows up in engagement. It shows up in persistence. It shows up in retention. And I think when students can easily discover clubs and events and peers, they start to feel connected to your institution in a way that, you know, just going to a class does not provide. So a unified platform that can turn the digital campus experience into a real living ecosystem is not just a utility. That connection really does create momentum for students. It creates momentum for the entire community on campus and off. And that momentum is literally what keeps students enrolled and coming back to our institutions. Also, just to put that marketing hat back on again, these experience are is are, like, the most impactful long term, I don't element on your institution's brand. So we we don't typically hear from students that, like, man, I remember that paper I wrote in English class. It was the most inspiring moment of my college experience. They talk about friends. They talk about the experiences they have with those friends on campus campus. They talk about the experiences that being on a college campus or in a college program brought them in terms of growth. That's what building a strong brand connection looks like when it comes to community, and I just don't think you can build a brand in 2026 without a powerful community surrounding it. Yeah. I this this one is so meaningful in so many ways. I picture students sitting in a large lecture hall and they're seeing someone that they met in a club. They're seeing somebody that they had coffee with because they met through a group. That's the organic connection that you build. And it just pays dividends in all sorts of ways that are so meaningful. So the human piece of this is huge Yeah. for bringing that to life. Sure. All right, moving on. Wanted to talk a little bit about really the expectation and bringing this to life. So nearly 60% of students in the survey said that the campus digital experience is not as good as Netflix and Amazon, but it should be. And I think, you know, some folks may say, Well, I'm a little skeptical here. I'm a higher ed institution. Should it be that? And I think all of the things we've talked about thus far really roots it in. If we can solve this and provide that type of experience where it is curated, it's the right information to the right student at the right time, why would we not? Both the success of the student, the success of your staff and institution, and then the reputation and the brand. We want them to exit this higher ed experience and say exactly what Eric just said, like, that was amazing. Like, I found my people. I was successful as a human, as a student. I have a great alumni community, and I will recommend this school to others. So I think that's really important to to look at this. And it's not a nice to have anymore. It really, really is a need to have. So I'd love to have you talk about this a little bit, Eric, in terms of what you're seeing about expectations. Yeah. And I I I think I've said this before probably every time we've talked to Shana, which is I and I think so many of my colleagues are so tired of hearing in meetings, well, higher ed moves slow. That, like, that is just not an acceptable way to approach our students anymore. But we do have these very large legacy systems, in some cases, existing on campus that serve very important pieces. But simply throwing our students into, like, a banner screen, for example, you know, not throwing shade at banner, but it could be a confusing experience for a student. So this doesn't mean building everything from scratch because that that's just not feasible for almost any campus. But if we can use the experience layer, the experience layer where we unite all of these applications that we're using, what the student actually touches can reach that consumer grade Netflix like, Amazon like experience while relying on data from systems that perhaps aren't there yet. So students and they just don't care how many systems you have. They care about how easy it feels and unifying into a single experience, a single system that they can understand quickly and intuitively makes perfect sense. So this campus experience platform, from our point of view, it lets us modernize the experience without the massive IT overhaul, which is critical for any institution. We all have budgets. So I think when I can provide a data point to my leadership, like, 59% of students say this the digital experience isn't as good as the platforms that they're using every day or should be, this this sets an expectation that's so critical. Yeah. Absolutely. And this, you know, this goes right into this mandate for unification. Yeah. 95% of students are somewhat or very likely to use a single digital platform if it's there. And as you described, like this doesn't mean you have to completely overhaul everything, rip and replace everything. It literally is providing a place for it to come to life in a way that is navigable, changeable, flexible, role based. That's the expectation now. We talk a lot about the flexibility of Pathfi and Eric can talk about that. He just hit the nail on the head. But it's really important to understand this makes a meaningful difference and it really is a mandate now that students are expecting that kind of experience. All right, next slide please. I want to talk and leave enough time. I know we're coming up on about ten minutes left. This is huge, and I've seen this play out in real time. This mandate for unification translates into students reconsidering enrollment based on this experience. And I think we've talked a little bit about that through the other data points, but if you're looking at an experience where you have 20 tabs open trying to figure out, hey, I've been accepted to this university or this institution, and I've got 20 tabs open trying to figure this out, and I've been accepted to this institution. And it's pretty clear to me what I do next and the type of experience. And I've already been invited to a group with psychology students, first year psychology students. I wonder which one you would pick if you were a first year student. I know which one I would pick. So this data is not surprising at all. I would love to hear a little bit of how you're thinking about this, Eric, because as a marketing executive, I'm sure this is one of the things that drives you every day. I think this this particular stat is kind of the record scratch moment of the report. Right? Like, this will turn any head. I think for any marketers here today, there's nothing more frustrating than spending your advertising budget on really great ads, and then someone clicks through and has no idea what to do next. So I think digital is digital experience is part of your brand, part of your marketing, part of your advertising, whether you like it or not at this point. And students share their experiences, the good and the bad. And I think that nothing makes me sadder than previously hearing students go like, this app is so brutal. Like, what are they doing with this thing? Right? I don't get to hear that anymore, which is awesome. And when a third of students are saying they would reconsider enrollment based on their digital ecosystem, like, that has to make you stop. That's a reputational risk, and I don't think digital investment is an option anymore. It's it's enrollment insurance. The the other thing this makes me think a lot about is as an institution, and I know this is true for most institutions right now, given enrollment challenges, we're looking to solidify additional revenue streams. Maximizing that lifelong value of the student is just so critical for us right now. And if you want that undergraduate student to come back for grad school or postgrad, you want them to donate to the university in the future, you want them to come back for continuing education, maybe even send their kids to summer camp so they become future students, If you think that making it difficult for them to do that is gonna help you, you're in a lot of trouble. Also, there's a school called Fair State that's making it a little bit easier, so we might steal them from you. It's a it's a a absolute disadvantage to have such a unresponsive digital ecosystem. So, yeah, I think for us, this is critical in terms of enrollment because it's literally how students enroll in our university. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. When you brought up differentiating revenue streams and reaching into the alumni community and also other communities, For instance, you know, alumni are embedded in companies. How are companies getting involved in providing some of the mandates around ROI on internships and exposure to career? All of that needs to be facilitated in a seamless way for it to actually work. And what you're describing will allow that. My recent most recent graduate from undergrad is applying to grad school right now. In grad school, obviously, it's a higher per hour tuition rate. It's revenue stream for a school. Her experience in just the application, and believe me, I'm not getting involved, but just the application has been so disparate at different schools. It's it's part of her it's part of her deciding factor. So it's real for sure. Awesome. Well thanks for sharing all of the real world experience that you have, Eric. I'm hoping that many in the audience today have seen this on their campus and are thinking about productive and hopeful ways to solve this. Really turning the data into action, which is the meat of the matter. Shifting to a personalized information and resources. You've heard Eric talk about how they've done that at Ferris State. We have so many other examples of schools that have looked at this and making it very personalized, exactly what that institution needs for groups of students. We see it all the time. It's doable. Unifying the experience and really empowering the staff and cultivating connection and community. That community and belonging piece is so core from day one of application all the way through the life cycle of the student, that's really what we are all about as well. This is prioritizing that digital front door to think about all the things you need to do to optimize that student experience can be done through one digital front door. There's flexibility. You can do a phased approach. It's not an all or nothing situation. Ferris has been a great example of that. As they've experienced success, as they've experimented with things, it's like this is working really well. Let's think about this piece differently. So really excited to see if there are any questions. Please put them in the Q and A. Appreciate all of your examples today, Eric. It's been wonderful to hear about how this has really supported students and staff members. Real quickly, I'm going to check the Q and A. One thing I wanted, because we have just a few minutes, Eric, one thing I wanted to get your perspective on was getting buy in, stakeholder management, understanding how, as the champion of Pathfi at Ferris, How did you navigate buy in at certain points in time? Anything you can share there would be helpful. Oh, sure. Yeah. I think one of the things that made it easy for us was that our our previous digital experience was quite so poor that anything was better than what we had. But I think one of the biggest pieces was explaining this digital sprawl that all of our all of our cabinet members were experiencing as well as all of our faculty, all of our staff, that was an easy an easy thing to say, like, look. You have 15 applications you have to manage every single day. You gotta bounce back and forth. You probably have a paper list of tabs you need to keep open, to do what you need to do. How much easier would it be if we were able to unite all of this in one space, and make that simpler for our students? The second thing, that really helped with buy in, I mean, cost is always going to be a thing. Right? Something we've discovered very quickly with Pathify was that we were able to start reducing and consolidating some of our other solutions into the solutions that Pathify provided, which allowed us to eliminate several contracts, and save the institution that significant amount of of, revenue of money. So I think that that alone can establish buy in. But when we're able to, use the significant analytics stack inside of Pathify as well to show that students are using this, that it's increasing engagement across not just the digital ecosystem, but events and experiences on campus, that's a kind of ROI that typically our our leadership are quite happy to support. Amazing. Thank you. I appreciate hearing that real world experience too. I know it's different at every institution, but the more we can bring folks together to understand how to bring this to life and manage stakeholders, the more we can serve each other. Real quick, I have a question from Brooks. Concerning the research methods without revealing specific schools, what were the selection criteria of which institutions that were not Pathify were selected? I don't have that answer right at the tip of my fingers, but we will definitely answer that question for you, Brooks, and get that answered in the follow-up email. If you download the report, Brooks, and everybody, the methodology is specifically named out in the report. So if you look again, just as a reminder in the chat, you can download the full report and see the methodology, which is important to read through. So feel free to download that. Well, thank you all so much. We are coming up on time. Thank you, Eric, for sharing your experience. Thank you for the great questions. Please download the report. We would love to see you download that and reach out if you have any questions. Thank you. Thank you.